Logic

From OoT Randomizer Wiki
Revision as of 04:42, 5 July 2021 by Star1468 (talk | contribs) (Vanilla Help)

“My Seed Is Broken!” (Glitchless Logic) - Solutions to completing randomized runs of Ocarina of Time can sometimes be unintuitive. While your seed may appear to be unbeatable, this isn’t often the case. Thanks to the diligent efforts of the developers, OoTR’s logic is incredibly robust. Listed below are some common sources of confusion, grouped by location. If you don’t mind spoiling the rest of the playthrough, instructions to finding your next step will be listed here.

If you follow these steps and still need help, you’re welcome to ask for support in the #gameplay-and-tricks channel of our Discord Server. Please provide the seed and setting string along with any important details about the issue. If it turns out there is indeed a logical flaw, kind members of our team will report issues from there.

Other Logic Pages

This page of the Wiki is for Glitchless Logic; for more information on Glitched and Entrance Randomizer Logic, please view the Glitched and Entrance Randomizer pages of the Wiki.

The logical item requirements for each dungeon are also available on the Vanilla and Master Quest dungeon requirements pages.

It is also to document unusual logic that is absolutely required know in a seed to finish most randomizer seeds. Anyone who wish to contribute to the randomizer by adding features with logical requirements will likely need to be familiar with the logic on a deeper level. The Advanced Logic page will provide a better explanation of some of the more difficult to comprehend, but unnecessary to know by heart, logic quirks.

Vanilla Help

For a quick refresher regarding the most basic aspects of Ocarina of Time, see these getting Started pages for Ocarina of Time.

For players who have not played randomizer before, it is strongly recommended to play the original game (i.e. vanilla) before attempting a randomizer seed. Strategy guides such as those from StrategyWiki and Zelda Dungeon can be very helpful. Video guides are also available, the user Krow's Graveyard has a playlist for Vanilla Ocarina of Time and Master Quest Ocarina of Time. Understanding how to beat vanilla is vital to beating a randomized seed.

For those who would prefer a quicker experience, Vanilla and Master Quest are available as randomizer seeds with all the QoL changes inherent to randomizer.


Spinning Pottery

The spinning Goron Pot is activated by lighting the torches surrounding it. This can be accomplished by lighting sticks from Darunia's chamber OR by casting Din's Fire. The Spinning Pot has 3 faces - Happy, Neutral, and Mad. Only the Happy face gives a randomized reward; Neutral give 3 bomb refills and Mad gives 3 green rupees.

Scarecrow’s Song

Link must teach it to Bonooru (the scarecrow nearer the lake) as a child and then remind him again as an adult. The song cannot be all the same note; many alternate between two notes for simplicity.

Save Quits

Saving and quitting, then reloading the game, inside dungeons will send you back to the beginning of the dungeon. If you get stuck somewhere without a warp song, you can save and quit outside the dungeon. Reloading the game will return Link to the Temple of Time (if adult) or Link's house (if child).

Opening Grottos without Bombs

Any grotto which can be opened with Bombs can also be opened with Hammer. However some grottos open when the Song of Storms is played and not with explosives.

Misunderstood Vanilla Mechanics

A lot of randomizer uses the vanilla requirements to do certain things. It just so happens that vanilla takes logic shortcuts in some locations because it's impossible to do some events before others. Meanwhile other events have requirements which do not come up in ordinary play. These are the most common issues people have starting randomizer after vanilla.

Open the Door of Time

Play the Song of Time while standing in front of the pedestal. The only requirements are a Fairy Ocarina and the Song of Time. The Spiritual Stones are not required, and the Ocarina of Time is also not required.

Skull Kid Ignores the Skull Mask

Skull Kid must be befriended with Saria's Song before he will buy the Skull Mask. This is not required for the Skull Mask check- that is done by showing the Skull Mask to the Deku Scrubs inside the Lost Woods Theater.

Saria Missing from Sacred Forest Meadow

Link must have Zelda's Letter or later in the child trade sequence before Saria arrives to teach her song. This means finding the Weird Egg, waking Talon, and visiting Zelda first.

Ocarina of Time and Song of Time Cutscenes

This is the Zelda & Impa's escape cutscene initiated by approaching the Castle Town draw bridge as a child. Link must have all 3 Spiritual Stones before approaching the draw bridge, Zora's Sapphire alone is not enough.

Can't Find the Running Man

Link must possess all 3 Spiritual Stones before the Running Man appears in Hyrule Field. Zora's Sapphire alone is not enough.

Big Poe Hunt

Without Epona, there is a 2/5 (40%) chance of a Big Poe spawning while passing their spawn areas. While on Epona, there is a 100% chance that the poe that spawns will be a Big Poe. Due to this, default logic does not expect hunting Big Poes without Epona. However, logic may expect them to be found as the random contents of bottles if the Big Poe Count setting is low enough.

Burning Village/Nocturne of Shadow Cutscene

Link must have the Forest, Fire, and Water Medallions and then enter Kakariko Village as Adult from any entrance.

Kakariko Shooting Gallery Gives 50 Rupees

The Fairy Bow/Quiver is required to win the special prize, otherwise you will receive 50 rupees.

Requiem of Spirit

The song typically acquired by leaving Spirit Temple as an adult can be collected as a child too. Exiting Spirit Temple is the vanilla requirement, since outside sequence breaks child would never reach the Colossus before adult.

In Entrance Randomizer, exit whichever dungeon is placed at Desert Colossus.

Zelda Light Arrow Cutscene

Enter the Temple of Time as adult with the Shadow and Spirit medallions to receive this item check. From the Master Sword pedestal, Link must approach the exit.

Vanilla Mechanics Changed by Randomizer

Randomizer has also changed some vanilla mechanics in an attempt to make randomization of certain elements more valuable. Those very familiar with Ocarina of Time may want to take note of the following differences.

Ocarina Memory Game

Randomizer changed this mini-game to only require completing the 5 note version of the game to obtain the item. The mini-game does not need to be done a second time.

Malon or Talon Missing from Ranch

Malon and Talon normally appear in Lon Lon Ranch after speaking to Zelda and receiving Zelda's Letter. Due to Weird Egg being able to be shuffled some changes have had to be made to this to avoid softlocks. Waking Talon up at Hyrule Castle with the Cucco from the Weird Egg and obtaining Zelda's Letter will have him appear at the ranch. If the Weird Egg is not shuffled, Malon will also appear at the ranch after this. If Weird Egg is shuffled, she will not appear at the ranch until Link speaks to her at Hyrule Castle and receives an item from her.

Dampe's Heart-Pounding Gravedigging Tour

Dampe no longer requires a random number of attempts and will instead dig up the Heart Piece on the first attempt. He doesn't even need to be over a dirt patch.

There is a bug in vanilla where if Link leaves the area before picking up the Heart Piece it is lost forever. The randomizer has mostly resolved this issue. Don't die before picking up the Heart Piece because this seems to do the same thing the vanilla bug does and isn't handled properly by the randomizer yet.

Sheik at Temple

The Sheik cutscene at the Master Sword pedestal to obtain Prelude of Light has been changed from beating Forest Temple to obtaining the Forest Medallion. Once Link has the Forest Medallion, approaching the pedestal as adult either from the door of time, or from pulling the sword out as child will give you the reward.

Fishing Pond

The fishing reward minimums were lowered so an 8 pound fish is required as Child and a 10 pound fish is required as Adult. However, the lure must still be in deep enough water to cause the fish to bite.

Biggoron's Claim Check

Biggoron no longer requires three days between giving him the eyedrops and claim check. The claim check can now be immediately returned to Biggoron for a randomized item.

Bombchu Bowling

Randomizer changed this mini-game so that the two randomized prizes are always the first two prizes offered by the lady- if you lose the game, leave and re-enter to reset the prize order. The requirements for unlocking this check have also been changed- if bombchus are in logic, then finding a bombchu pack is required, otherwise a bomb bag is required if bombchus are not in logic.

Forest

This section covers the following areas Kokiri Forest, The Lost Woods, and The Sacred Forest Meadow.

Closed Forest

When the "Closed Forest" setting is active, Link is expected to stay in the aforementioned areas until beating Gohma in the Great Deku Tree. Do not leave these areas, even if there is a bomb bag, silver scale, or ocarina and a warp song. The Kokiri Sword will be in one of these forest areas and the shop will have a repeatably purchasable Deku Shield, even with Shopsanity active.

Slingshot

If Closed Forest is enabled a Slingshot will always be found somewhere in Kokiri Forest, The Lost Woods, The Sacred Forest Meadow or The Great Deku Tree.

Hidden Grottos

Hidden grottos in these areas can be required, especially with the Closed Forest setting enabled. The Stone of Agony must be found before logic can expect these locations, provided the trick that removes the SoA requirement is not enabled.

Tokensanity

With Tokensanity enabled the three dirt patch Skulltulas can be required, especially if the Closed Forest setting is enabled. In the Lost Woods, jump slashing the bushes outside of the Goron City warp with a stick will release bugs which can be caught in a bottle and used on the dirt patches. Since the sword could be in a dirt patch, keep this in mind.

Kakariko Village

Rear Entrance to Impa's House as Child

Take a cucco to the incomplete building. Toss it onto the top of the pile of bricks and climb up after it. Once on top of the pile of bricks with the cucco, pick it up and fly across to the Scaffolding. From here follow behind the carpenter to reach a good position to jump towards the entrance above the chicken coop.

Reach Rooftops without Longshot

It's possible to get on the important rooftops with only Hookshot. Get a little closer and try again.

Draining Kakariko Well

Play the Song of Storms to the Windmill Operator as a child.

  • Project 64 will have this issue if not configured correctly. Be sure you have followed the instructions in Project64 if you run into it: Draining the well at night can crash the game; attempting it during the day is less likely to cause this crash.
Freestanding PoH in Windmill

The freestanding heart piece in the windmill doesn't always expect an ocarina or the Song of Time. Use the boomerang to grab the item here or, if the trick is enabled, reach it as adult with no other items required.

Goron City

Reach Goron City from Lost Woods without Bombs

Ignite the Bomb Flowers behind the boulders using Din’s Fire. Alternatively, if Adult Link destroys the boulders with Hammer, Strength, or Bow they'll be destroyed in the past so Child Link can enter.

Get Large Rolling Goron to Relinquish Goods

Bomb the Goron in the dark tunnel near the sign (Bomb/Bombchu).

In version 4.0 and older the Large Rolling Goron also requires Link to have a Bomb Bag

Boulder Maze without Bombs or Hammer

Silver Guantlets are effective at clearing a path to each of the chests in the room. This will take some time, however.

Reaching the Grotto

This grotto is adult only, and contains three business scrubs. Requirements to reach this grotto are as follows: Goron Tunic + Hookshot, or Ocarina + Song of Time, or Nayru's Love + Hookshot. If one-hit KO or 4x damage is on, then the glitchless logical requirements are either Ocarina + Song of Time + Goron Tunic/Longshot/Nayru's Love, or Nayru's Love + Hookshot. Further explanation here.

Death Mountain Crater

Reach the lower Exit

From the top of the tall ladder, use the Hover Boots to hover over the boulder blocking the shortcut to Goron City (lower exit). Hover Boots can also be used at the bottom of the ladder to bypass the Boulder.

Reach the Bottom Area for Bolero of Fire and Access to Fire Temple

Use Hover Boots to cross the dilapidated bridge to reach the Warp Platform & Fire Temple.

Alternatively, reach this bottom area with the Longshot by jumping from the upper area onto the lava platforms below and shooting a wooden plank to pull Link across the pool of lava.

Zora’s Domain

Access with Silver Scale

Silver Scale allows access to Zora's Domain as child from Lake Hylia.

Need Blue Fire to Unfreeze King Zora/Zora Shop

In Ganon’s Castle, Blue Fire can be found in Water Trial. Blue Fire may also be a purchasable item for 300 rupees in shops.

Lake Hylia

Go fishing

The fishing man rewards an 8 pound fish as a Child and a 10 pound fish as an Adult. Make sure to toss the lure in deep enough water to entice fish to bite. There's a minimum depth required for the mini-game to work. Tossing the Lure in very shallow water may cause the fish may swim around the Lure but never bite.

Lake Hylia - Shooting the Sun with an Arrow

The tall rectangle island can be reached without filling the lake by using Scarecrow's Song and Longshot. You may not need to complete the Water Temple and raise the water level at Lake Hylia to acquire the item. The arrow must be fired at the sun during the early morning as per the written instructions on the stone platform.

Gerudo Fortress/Gerudo Valley

Traversing the Gerudo Valley Broken Bridge

Cross the Broken Bridge as an Adult by using either Epona to jump it or using the Longshot on the sign above the gate on the other side.

Entering Gerudo Training Grounds without Being Captured

Link must have the Gerudo Membership Card and also rescue all of the Carpenters that have been captured. If the Gerudo Membership Card is shuffled, then only the card is needed and the Carpenters do not need to be rescued to access the area.

Getting Caught without a Hookshot

If caught by a Gerudo Guard, either inside during combat or outside by being seen, without a Hookshot, Link will be thrown into the valley outside the tent, rather than into the jail cell from which Link could not escape.

Horse Archery NPC is Missing or Won't Initiate the Mini-game

This mini-game requires the Fairy Bow, Epona, and the Gerudo Membership Card. It must also be day time.

Fortress Rooftop Chest without Longshot

The chest can be reached from the top with the Hover Boots or by spawning a scarecrow and using the Hookshot. You'll have to stand close to the edge of the top level for the Hookshot to reach. Note that you won't see the Hookshot's red dot on the scarecrow.

Inside the Deku Tree

Access F3 without Slingshot

The slingshot is not required to get to the top floor of the Deku Tree. In fact, in Master Quest Link doesn't get the slingshot until climbing all the way up the tree in the first place. Skulltulas don't rush Link when he is not moving. Sneak past them while they are looking away.

Two Chests in Slingshot Room

In vanilla Deku Tree there are two chests in the Slingshot room. The first is the obvious one that has the slingshot, but there are climbable vines on the wall to the left of it which lead to a second chest.

Dodongo's Cavern

Gold Skulltula on top of the Sinking Staircase

Progress through the right side of the dungeon and hit the switch that makes the platforms in the entrance room rise higher, then leave the dungeon and re-enter it, progress through the dungeon backwards by taking the right platform in the entrance room to the top floor and going through the door on the upper level. This will grant you access to vines on the side of the stairs before the stairs have been lowered by the bomb blasts.

Inside Jabu-Jabu's Belly

First Switch

The switch on the ceiling in the first room of Jabu Jabu's Belly can be hit using explosives.

Forest Temple

Get Outside without Song of Time or Bow

With Hover Boots, float to the door connecting the large block-pushing room with the courtyard.

Cross to the Other Courtyard via Well

With Gold Scale or Iron Boots, Link can cross from one courtyard to the other through the well.

Can’t Push Large Colored Blocks as Adult

In the Forest Temple, the Goron’s Bracelet is required to push these blocks, even as adult. Link only put on gauntlets to keep his hands from drying out.

Triggering the Frozen Eye Switch without Bow

Use Din's Fire from the platform below the frozen eye switch to activate it.

MQ Forest Temple

Get Outside with just Hover Boots

The western courtyard can be reached from the room with the block-push puzzle by hovering towards the crystal switch behind the transparent wall and then jump slashing to hit the switch from the other side. This will remove the transparent wall, allowing you to hover to this door leading to the courtyard. The ledge from which you'll want to hover is behind the first blocks, but if you lack strength then this ledge can also be hovered to from where you end up after climbing the second ladder. If you have trouble making these hovers, then try rolling for extra distance.

Fire Temple

Can’t Push Large Colored Blocks as Adult

In the Fire Temple, the Goron’s Bracelet is required to push these blocks, even as adult. Link only put on gauntlets to keep his hands from drying out.

Reach Volvagia without Hammer

With Hover Boots equipped, it’s a simple matter of floating over to the boss door. That said, the Hammer is still required to defeat the boss.

Skip the Topmost Locked Door

Similarly to Volvagia, skip the topmost locked door by using Hover boots to float over to the pillar. Then use the Hammer to open the door leading to the Highest Goron and Hammer Chest.

Extra Key

When key-sanity is disabled (that is, keys are in their own dungeon), the lock in the basement behind the hammer blocks is removed. This results in a spare key for this dungeon.

Water Temple

Entering without Iron Boots

The entryway is in logic with just longshot and gold scale. However, nothing inside Water Temple is in default logic without Iron Boots, except for beating Morpha and part of the Dark Link loop (Longshot chest, whirlpool river chest and the Gold Skulltula in the falling platforms room). Therefore this is only logically relevant in Entrance Randomizer or various Boss/Small Key settings. Nevertheless, there are strats for getting most of the checks in Water Temple without Iron Boots.

Boss Key Chest without Bombs or Goron’s Bracelet

Use the Hover Boots to reach the chest.

Getting Past the Timed Gate without Longshot

After shooting the eye switch, cross the gap with Hover Boots.

Center Room Gold Skulltula without Longshot

Cast Farore’s Wind inside the center room. Raise the water to its highest level and cast Farore's Wind again to return to the warp point. Swim to the surface to reach the Gold Skulltula. In versions 6.0 and newer, this is no longer in default logic.

Extra Key

The door leading to the highest water level changer is never locked in rando. This results in a spare key for this dungeon.

Can’t Raise the Water Level

This is only relevant prior to version 4.0 of randomizer

With the water level lowered, jump down to the second level of the central structure. This may require savewarping to the beginning of the dungeon to reach. Use the Hookshot to climb onto the top level. With a well-spaced rolling jump you should be able to reach the ledge where you can raise the water to its highest level. This isn't required but it's a handy time saver.

Shadow Temple

Crossing the First Gap without Hookshot

Hoverboots will reach the other side. If you fall short, start from the wall to build up speed before leaving the ledge.

First Silver Rupee Room without Hookshot

Reach raised platform in the corner of the room by using the Hover Boots from the nearby low wall.

Spike floor room without Longshot

Backflip onto the chest spawned in the middle of the room. From there, use the Hookshot to reach the upper ledge.

Reach the Boat without Goron’s Bracelet

Bypass pushing the large block by shooting the top of the ladder with a Hookshot.

Reach Bongo Bongo without the Fairy Bow

Play the Scarecrow’s Song to summon Pierre. Use Longshot to get to the other side.

Gerudo Training Ground

Lava room without Longshot

The torch at the end of this room is in reach using only the Hookshot.

Timed Boulder Room without Longshot

The target on the ceiling is just within range of the Hookshot when standing almost directly under it. A wallmaster can also lift Link into the rupee if it’s the last to be collected.

Spirit Temple

Child Side Enemy Room

In order to kill the Armos in this room, you're expected to have at least one of the following item combinations: Deku Sticks (jumpslashes can hit), Kokiri Sword, or Deku Nuts + Slingshot.

Lower Metal Bridge on Child Side without Boomerang

You can just barely hit the switch with a well-placed slingshot shot. Alternatively, hit the crystal switch with a well-timed Bombchu placement in the opposite direction.

Map chest without Din’s Fire or Magic

Child Link is perfectly capable of lighting the torches using only a Deku Stick.

Collect Silver Rupees in the Boulder Room without Hover Boots

Reach the floating rupee by jumping into the boulder with a jump slash, or even without hitting the boulder with a properly timed jump slash.

Silver Gauntlets Chest from Adult Side using Longshot

With a Longshot, shoot the chest opposite from the Mirror Shield chest to gain access to its contents and the end of child-side.

Boss Key Chest

The Eye Switch can be accessed by hitting the fake door with something to make it fall over. You do not necessarily need to destroy the fake door.

Inside Ganon’s Castle

Spirit Trial without Fire Arrows

A precise shot of an arrow through the torch will burn the web to reveal the light.

Water Trial Blue Fire

With your bridge requirement set to Open, Blue Fire can be brought from the Water Trial to thaw King Zora or, if you have shopsanity active, to open the Zora Shop as adult if inaccessible as child.

Shadow Trial without Fire Arrows

There are 2 scenarios possible here, either with Hover Boots or with Din's Fire. Obviously, Link may have both, in which case either method will work.
With Hover Boots, Longshot the torch to the right as you enter. From there, Link can reach the Like-Like with the Longshot. Once to the middle platform, equip the Hover Boots and roll across the gap to the platform where the chest spawns. From here open the chest and finish the trial.
With Din's Fire as a fire source, do the same thing as with Hover Boots, but instead of going to the Like-Like immediately, cast Din's Fire first. This will spawn the glass platform to the chest platform so Link can jump across.

Knowing the Way with the Spoiler Log

The spoiler log contains information about your personally randomized copy of the game and can be very helpful when looking for important items you've missed. Please be aware that the Playthrough presented is intended to prove the seed is beatable in logic. It does not represent the only way to logically beat the seed. It takes only a few steps to find:

How do I find my Spoiler Log?


Versions 1.0 - 3.0 and Standalone Download

Open the spoiler log generated in the same folder that the randomized ROM is located in. It should be formatted as OoT_SETTINGSTR_SEED_Spoiler.txt.